HARD WORK - Family Values in Different Cultures

Now *THIS* is "hard work" ... but someone has to be a skilled diver!! After all ... "FREEDOM ISN'T FREE!" Outside the US things are *VERY* different - airport security in some small countries is, virtually, non-existent. You can also see my article below where I talk about Grand Parental rights and begin go get a feel for how other cultures have a completely different perception on what is right or wrong with respect to family values and, more importantly, how the governing law should reflect the family values of their culture. We must ask ourselves, do our current family laws in Oklahoma accurately reflect the social value system of family values that is maintained by the average citizen? Do we have special interest groups making (or trying to make) laws that deviate from the majority core values held by Oklahomans at large? These questions must addressed head on for Oklahoma to continue healthy growth. Economic policies are important, but if we are not accurately legslislatively addressing the needs of the next generation where are we really going economically?

Grand Parental Rights

Here is a new spin on our traditional thoughts of "Grand Parental Rights!" In the United States, and particularly in Oklahoma, Grand Parental rights has been the focus of much legislation. Essentially, attempts to legislate into a gap where in the more commonly non-traidtional home grand parents are not alienated from their biological grand children by a former daughter-in-law or son-in-law with custody who is resistent to allow, as primary custodial parent, their children to visit with the "other side" of the family.

However, today I am in a country where the law permits grand parents to sue for support from their family. Yes, that's right ... grand parents have the right to LEGALLY COMPEL their grand children to permit the grand parent to live with the grand child and to LEGALLY COMPEL the grand children to take care of a sick or elderly grand parent. This is a culture in which the nuclear family is so important, yet being westernized by the day, so that the legal powers to be have cemented their heritage by law.

Quite an interesting twist on the United States thought of "grand parental" rights. Think about it, in the United States we usually just put our elderly in an "Old person warehouse" ... a nursing home ... where they can live out their lives with little quality, but with equally little inconvenience on our own lives.

Who is missing the issue? If we "had" to take care of our own biological foreparents we might actually save enough federal funding so that our own grandchildren would be able to pay off Bush's war ... as opposed to our great, great grandchildren! Interesting cultural twist on the same term "grand parental rights!"

Reaction to House Bill 1026 Statutory Divorce Requirements

WOW! I was just informed of some of the comments posted by people regarding the Article published in The Oklahoman on March 22, 2008. I'm so flattered that I wanted to share them with you.
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Judge Chionopoulos shares much wisdom in the article. We have many great jurists here in Oklahoma and Judge Chionopoulos was one of best.

Laure, Oklahoma City - Apr 3, 2008 8:45 AM
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This well written article makes a lot of sense and provides clarity to the otherwise confusing message of HB 1026. I agree there needs to be counselling and serious attempts at keeping a marriage intact but eliminating incompatibility and other reasons for divorce is not the answer to having a long term marriage. In today's society of accepting a woman's "right" to have unwed births as the norm then perhaps we need to start there in the law to preserve the sanctity of marriage? And as for reasons for divorce and what marriages should strive to be, as in life long commitments, then perhaps we need to be stating terms from the bible, where it is addressed in specific terms and not a House Bill trying to reduce divorce statistics? I appreciate Judge Chionopoulos' insight and writing style, and wish he were still on the bench here.

E, Newcastle - Mar 25, 2008 11:37 AM
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I am very impressed with Mr. Chionopoulos' summary of divorce information. I am an advocate for marriage but even a stronger advocate for marriage education. Oklahoma offers a multitude of opportunities for free and convenient relationship and marriage education. I appreciate Mr. Chionopoulos' information and enjoyed his perspective on HB 1026.

Anna, Oklahoma City - Mar 25, 2008 8:40 AM
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I wholly agree with Judge Chionopoulos' opinion that incompatibility should be retained as a ground for divorce in Oklahoma. Although it is easy to point to lower divorce rates in fault-based states like New York and thus conclude it must be because of the absence of incompatibility as a ground for divorce, that conclusion does not hold water. Too many socioeconomic factors come into play to draw such a simple conclusion. One such factor could be that the medium age for first marriages of men and women in New York is about five years greater than in Oklahoma. The 2005 Census records medium ages for first time marriages of men/women respectively as New York 29.3/27.3 verses Oklahoma’s 25.6/23.5. As Judge Chionopoulos states, requiring one person to blame the other for a divorce to go forward sets a bitter tone from the outset that permeates the proceedings and serves only to line the divorce lawyers' pockets. The focus should be on "think before you act" both before one marries and again before one decides to divorce. If the State is to act at all in this area it should be to provide counseling and other assistance during these times rather than creating and/or escalating animosity between the parties at the outset a divorce.

Cathy, Oklahoma City - Mar 25, 2008 8:23 AM
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This is not so much about Judge Chionopoulos, although many, many people realized in hind-sight that they were very, very wrong for rushing to judgment (especially as lawyers and judges) and some have even said so, as much as it is about the topic of whether incompatability should be excluded as a statutory ground for divorce. I do a lot of divorce work and I agree with the Honorable Judge Chionopoulos; eliminating incompatability from the grounds permitting divorce would only add more emotion and bitterness to already volitile situation. Without being able to plead what amounts to "no-fault", one person or the other will have to "prove" that the opposing party actually did one of the remaining 11 grounds. It is nonsense for the Oklahoma Legislature to believe that they can "force people to stay married!" Oh, by the way, we probably should not talk about all of the shining examples of marital fidelity in our State Capitol as examples!!! Judge Chionopoulos is right, making it more difficult to get married and enacting legislation that forces good initial decision-making and personal/moral accountability is more solid policy making then making it difficult, more costly and more traumatic for the children. My personal opinion about Judge Chionopoulos notwithstanding, I must agree with the comments below - he is, indeed, a brilliant jurist. Perhaps he should be in the Oklahoma Legislature setting policy? He seems to at least understand it, which is apparently more than can be said for those who would pass laws without having a grasp on how they impact the "average person."

SH, Oklahoma City - Mar 24, 2008 9:51 PM
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PS - I saw the allegations in The Oklahoman, but did The Oklahoman ever even tell a follow up story as to the investigation outcomes on Judge Chionopoulos? If so, I missed it.

Kersten, Norman - Mar 24, 2008 6:07 PM
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WOW! Much activity on Monday from a Saturday article. I did read it - and I have appeared in front of Judge Chionopoulos. It is true, as they have already said, he is a brilliant jurist. So, it is really no surprise that he is keeping up with Oklahoma Domestic law and still trying to have a positive impact on Oklahoma families. While we Cleveland County lawyers tend to stay out of Oklahoma County politics, it was apparent to everyone in Oklahoma that Judge Chionopoulos was not treated fairly. Judge Chionopoulos was denied the basic "due process of law" that, as a Judge, he was required to maintain for everyone else. This article shows me two things: 1) The man is truely a legal scholar far beyond most of those who don a robe; 2) Even after the gross injustice with which he was treated, he cares enough to try and make a positive difference in the lives of Oklahomans. I commend him for being so selfless. With the Presidential elections coming we hear "Its about the Economy, STUPID!" As for Oklahoma jurisprudence, regardless of what county, I would like to say in domestic law "Its about the children, STUPID!" That seems to me to be what Judge Chionopoulos cares most about even now. He should be given an apology and an award. I don't know him, where he is, or what he is or was but I do know he cared about the children in the cases I had and evidently, even after the unjust and shameful manner in which he was treated, he evidently still cares about the children. Good for him and Thank You, Judge Chionopoulos, where ever you are at this point.

Kersten, Norman - Mar 24, 2008 6:06 PM
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This is an example of "good-common-sense" (something we, as Oklahomans, like to pride ourselves in having) that proves Judge Chionopoulos should be on the Oklahoma Supreme Court. I appeared in front of him. As this article demonstrates, he knew the rules and could see the "big picture" of how those rules would have real impact on real lives. Now, rather than having one of the most brillian jurists on the bench, the man who appeared on television as the attorney for his accusers is on the bench. How much and what has he published? Wow! The article specifically did not say where Judge Chionopoulos is now or what he is doing. Judge Chionopoulos, if you read these comments please know that your knowledge is sorely missed from the bench. Your acceptional knowledge of both evidence and procedure actually made "justice" more than a mere word.

Julie, Oklahoma City - Mar 24, 2008 3:59 PM
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As an attorney who has advised divorce clients, I agree that HB 1026 is a train wreck in disguise. Lt Col (Ret) Chionopoulos has written a most articulate and helpful article that will hopefully open the eyes of the Oklahoma legislature and citizenry. This poignant article is indicative of Judge Chionopoulos’ common sense and statute-driven approach to the judiciary. What a loss to Oklahoma! Oklahoma "Good Ole Boy" politics drove out one of the most honest, professional, hard-working jurists to have graced the Bench!

Concerned, Oklahoma City - Mar 24, 2008 2:28 PM
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Judge Chionopoulos makes an excelent point - divorcing people have enough opportunity to say ugly things about each other. Why structure the legal system so that the ugliness is institutionally required? I always believed, no offense to the other judges there, that he was the most significant legal scholar on that floor. It is truely a loss to Oklahoma that he was victimized. I understand that two investigations revealed no evidence of wrong-doing, yet we lost the Judge that was most aggressively collecting child support. At the same time, the man who appeared on television for the accusers is now a judge. Things that make you go "Hmmmmmm?"

George, Oklahoma City - Mar 24, 2008 1:06 PM
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Mr. Chionopoulos has a good point about educating people before they get married, but doesn't this bill seem like a drive to make every marriage in Oklahoma one of Keating's cherished 'covenant' marriages?

Concerned, Central Oklahoma - Mar 24, 2008 12:22 PM